Toddler punishments
  • IWISHIWEREKBIWISHIWEREKB
    Posts: 66Member
    My 2 1/2 yr old daughter is a monster. A hilarious, too-smart-for-her-own-good, devious little monster.  She is so funny and it's really hard to stay mad at her. She is loud and selfish and bossy and mean.  She ALWAYS takes things from her brother (14 mos), pushes him, yells at him. Poor kid is gonna grow up to be a fighter because he's always had to fight for whats his.  Anyway, I have tried spanking, yelling, ignoring her, time outs, taking toys away, you name it.  Just within the last couple of months, if I put her in a time out she pees on the floor just like a little dog. I have tried to make her clean it up and she still does it! Spankings don't work because then she just hits right back. Threats don't work...here's an example, "Lucy, do NOT hit your brother again or Minnie is going in the garbage!" to which she replies, "Ahh Dammit Mama! I throw YOU in da garbage!" (Funny as shit, but SO naughty!!)
    So, the last thing I have resorted to is....hot sauce.  She kept yelling "shut up" at me over and over and over and I finally just went and got some hot sauce and put it on her tongue. It worked. She hasn't said it since, but now I find myself threatening hot sauce all the time just to get her to behave! Yesterday I had to give it to her because she pushed her brother clear down off of a play thing and she bit my face.  She hates it and she always cries and says she's sorry afterwards, but I don't want to feel like I'm torturing her....
    Thoughts? Opinions? Please dont pass judgement on me about this. It's not ideal, but if you could see her day to day you would probably understand. This kid is killing me. My other two are "angels."
  • justkeepswimmingjustkeepswimming
    Posts: 780Member
    Not judging, just an honest question - do you ever see her display voluntary, genuine empathy? I know it's not something toddlers are good at in general (developmental thing), but they do have blips of it. I am just wondering if your daughter does?
    When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is.
    ~Oscar Wilde
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  • GritsGrits
    Posts: 4,370Member
    EEEK! No judgement, but no hot sauce, either! Two year olds can be really tough. My oldest was so damned stubborn, I couldn't do much with her. Stick to the time outs. If she pees, make her sit there in wet pants for a bit, or have her clean it up and start time-out over again....and again, and again, and again. Until she learns to cooperate. Does she have her own bedroom? If so, take all the toys out and make her stay in there until she can calm down and cooperate.

    Do you have any idea (other than she's 2) what triggers her behaviors? Do you get a chance to spend much time with her one on one? From an outsider's perspective, it seems like she crying out for attention. I'm sure it's hard to get that time with her with a 14-month-old and another child on your hands, too, but maybe while he's napping?? Or try distraction--painting, coloring, play-doh. Whatever it takes to divert her attention from being a little turd. It's trial and error for awhile, but the hot sauce is no good. Throw that shit out. I do understand your frustration, but that particular punishment could make things harder in the long run on both of you. I believe there could also be some repercussions from CPS should they be alerted to the situation. I don't think you're a bad mom, just that you've reached the end of your rope. Big hugs mama!! And good luck with your little terror!!
    >:D<
    "I believe in being strong when everything seems to be going wrong. I believe that happy girls are the prettiest girls. I believe that tomorrow is another day, and I believe in miracles." ~Audrey Hepburn
  • IWISHIWEREKBIWISHIWEREKB
    Posts: 66Member
    I hear you both and thats my concern. I feel like maybe I'm going to far, but like maybe just after a couple of times, she'll stop, you know? I've only given it to her 3 times for the peeing and the shut ups and the pushing and biting.  And @justkeepswimming No, she doesn't really. I'm also very concerned about that and my husband is crazy. She does not willingly say sorry or from what I can see, feel bad in anyway unless SHE gets hurt, you know? She is nice sometimes and she loves her daddy, but if her brother is crying or if she hurts him, it's like pulling teeth to get her to apologize. The empathy thing has definitely been on my mind. 
  • Lulu
    Posts: 279Member

    Don't threaten, do. Don't threaten to throw Minnie in the garbage, actually do it. (Put it in a plastic bag first so if you change your mind it's not ruined.)


    And you say she's "hilarious," you don't laugh in front of her or let her see that any of it is funny, do you? Get rid of the "my kid is horrible and funny!" mentality because she could be feeding off that.

  • justkeepswimmingjustkeepswimming
    Posts: 780Member

    She's too young yet to truly suspect something's off, some kids are just a lot more work than others, but I would keep it in the back of your mind. And talk to your doctor - if it is an empathy issue, maybe she's not making connections in her brain on time or something - then I wonder if they have specialists who work with behavior the way they do for a kid who has, say, developmental speech delay or something. But like I said, it's too early yet. I wish I could give you something practical in the short term, but I am at a loss. Good luck hun!

    When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is.
    ~Oscar Wilde
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  • Lulu
    Posts: 279Member

    Also, after re-reading the original post, I'd be very worried about your 14 month old because if she pushes him off something he could seriously be injured.


    Can you put her in diapers for her time-outs? If she's going to act like a baby, treat her like a baby. Or put down a puppy pad and make her sit on it.


    I'd also take EVERYTHING away except her furniture out of her room. No toys, no nothing. Can her brother's toys be kept in his bedroom? She can earn back her belongings.

  • IWISHIWEREKBIWISHIWEREKB
    Posts: 66Member
    Well, we live in a 3 bdr apt so she and her brother share a room and my 10 yr old daughter has HER own room.  I feel like a monster doing it, but to me it's better than spanking and hitting...you know?
  • shate98shate98
    Posts: 5,020Member
    ugh that sucks! My 2yo responds to time outs so I haven't had to resort to creative punishments, although now he's taking to licking the walls when in time out.
    "As you wander through your life, whatever be your goal,
    keep your eye upon the doughnut, not upon the hole."
  • IWISHIWEREKBIWISHIWEREKB
    Posts: 66Member

    It's kind of hard for me to explain what I mean by her being hilarious and naughty at the same time. You know when your kid is in trouble and then they just say something funny? It's like that and I don't laugh in front of her, but sometimes I have to cover my face so she won't see me smile about it. 

  • justkeepswimmingjustkeepswimming
    Posts: 780Member
    *the schnozzberries taste like schnozzberries! (sorry, I couldn't resist)
    When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is.
    ~Oscar Wilde
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  • IWISHIWEREKBIWISHIWEREKB
    Posts: 66Member
    Ladies, I know that the hot sauce sounds terrible and I don't feel awesome about it but I definitely want to emphasize that I would never hurt/abuse my children. I'm just desperatly trying to find SOMETHING that works. She can't keep getting away with hurting her brother and pushing and kicking and hiting and biting and pulling hair. It's unacceptable.  I try to keep my kids busy throughout the day whether it's playtime, playdates, puzzels, down time, or even *gasp* a movie. I do the best I can every day and I try to give them all the attention that they deserve and need!
  • justkeepswimmingjustkeepswimming
    Posts: 780Member
    I'm sorry, I wasn't making reference to you! I sympathize with your plight, I really do!! My Schnozzberry comment was in reference to @shate98 comment about wall licking. I'm sorry you felt attacked >:D<
    When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is.
    ~Oscar Wilde
    Cat Kitty Love Hugs Smilie Smiley Smilies Smileys Emoticon Emoticons Animated Animation Animations Gif
  • IWISHIWEREKBIWISHIWEREKB
    Posts: 66Member
    Oh I know! Its ok! I totally laughed at that :))
  • TorturedbyTWINSTorturedbyTWINS
    Posts: 1,543Member
    Wow, you have your hands full.   All I can say is I agree with @Lulu  don't threaten, just do it.  Also, sounds like you are not consistent.  Consistency is a KEY.  My kids listen better to my DH, so do the dog, cat, and horse.  Why?  Not because he is mean, or even more strict, he is just consistent.  I also give a few more chances by way of threats.  I used to "count till three" until I removed them or did time out, now I tell them to stop the behavior and if they don't I react....  It sucks because now I have to get up from SM every freaking time they are into something bad, but I can see the consistency paying off already!  They are starting to take me much more seriously now, and the same will work on your daughter.  

    Oh, and buy her puppy pads for the corner.  Let her pee, don't react.  The very last bit of advice comes from a fellow twin mom about time out.

    Normally time out goes with age 1 year=1 minute... 3 years=3 minutes and so on.  My BFF puts her kids in time out for the allotted time BUT they can not come out until they are done crying.  This makes for a much quieter time out discipline and her point is that you can't explain anything to a child who is crying hysterically.  Once they get it under control, you can talk to them about their time out, have hugs and move on.  Her kids are incredibly well behaved and saying, "stop crying" in her house actually works.  She said it takes kids about a week to figure out time out is a quiet place... then they aren't spending additional minutes there and she tells them, "You are done but you can only come out when you are done crying!"  It works like a charm!
  • Lakegirl34
    Posts: 2,814Member
    Wow-sounds like your daughter is a challenge! Given that you have tried so many things without much success and her lack of empathy, maybe you could call a child therapist or psychologist in your area for an assessment and some suggestions. I've been told the terrible 3's are worse than the terrible 2's so as she gets older and little brother can fight back more, it could get worse. it seems like now would be the time to get some help. If you have insurance it would be covered under Behavioral Health Benefits or you can try a local university or mental health counseling center for reduced costs.
  • BellaBefanaBellaBefana
    Posts: 10,374Member

    Ladies, I know that the hot sauce sounds terrible and I don't feel awesome about it but I definitely want to emphasize that I would never hurt/abuse my children. I'm just desperatly trying to find SOMETHING that works. She can't keep getting away with hurting her brother and pushing and kicking and hiting and biting and pulling hair. It's unacceptable.  I try to keep my kids busy throughout the day whether it's playtime, playdates, puzzels, down time, or even *gasp* a movie. I do the best I can every day and I try to give them all the attention that they deserve and need!



    I actually thought the hot sauce was genius, so long as you're not pouring it down her throat, I wouldn't think it would be considered abuse.  Hell, the nail biting stuff is made out of capsasin...pepper sauce.  

    Spankings don't work in my house, neither do time outs, unless I'm willing to sit on top of her.  My "weapon" of choice is the vacuum cleaner...and no, I don't try to vacuum her up with it :-) but she absolutely hates, with the passion of a supernova, the sound of it.  All I have to do get up and walk toward the closet and she straightens up.  As for the throwing out toys, yep, don't just threaten, get a big old trash bag and put whatever needs "dumping" into it and make her earn them back.

    It also sounds like an attention thing, and if she pees out of spite, then I agree make her clean herself up.  But that's walking a very fine line.  We went through that here too, dd would throw a temper tantrum and just pee where ever she stood, most of the time on the carpet, you have to know that's what's going on before you start disciplining for that especially at 2 because she may just not have good control over her bladder yet, and if she's still having other accidents, you could be setting yourself up for some major potty training challenges.

    It sounds like she's got a little sibling rivalry going on with the baby, so maybe do some rewards for her for good behavior and some one on one time with you or dad.
    Bite me, cupcake!
  • VegantasticVegantastic
    Posts: 4,225Member
    I agree with @Grits.  I don't judge you at all- you sound like you've tried everything, and to be fair, you can't let her be a monster. But I don't think it's the way to go. I think she's acting out for attention- definitely some sibling rivalry too. And I agree with the other moms- be consistant. Throw the toys "out" and make her earn them. Take all of the toys out of her room. Make her sit in the pee underwear until timeout is over.  DD went through a MONSTER phase, and just when I was at my wit's end, something clicked and she started "getting" it. She got tired of being in trouble and having no fun and wanted to behave. It's a battle of wills, and you HAVE to win lol   Also, have you tried a sticker chart for good behavior? With rewards, like a trip to the park with just mummy or daddy, or stickers, or little treats... Just a thought!!
    "Be the change you wish to see in the world"
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  • Supermom120
    Posts: 53Member
    I can COMPLETELY relate to what you are going through! My DD6 is very independent, strong willed, and quick witted. And she was very hard to discipline and still is. I tried everything as well, although I used soap a few times. At least hot sauce is actual food! It's just unpleasant food. I have had a lot more success recently by saying things once and then following through. She is not allowed to move on to the next activity/transition until the request by me is completed. I learned this from an awesome parenting book I learned this technique in an awesome parenting book I read (I spent a lot of time in the bathroom with an "upset stomach").

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0800732189

    It has been working, even with my DD22mo. You just basically need to, in no uncertain terms, show her mama ain't takin no shit, lol!
    As far as the peeing, I got nothin, haven't had that one (yet).
    @torturedbyTwins I do a variation of that for time out, except they have to stop cring before their time starts. Then they really knock it off quick!

    Good luck, @IWISHIWEREKB.
  • meandmy243meandmy243
    Posts: 9,474Member
    When she's being good praise her.. empathy is being learned at that age. If she hurts someone make her help make that person feel better. Use I messages. Explain to her because that because she did this she has to do that.. she bites you say loudly ouch! That hurts momma and makes mommy very sad. When she does something good Lucy look at this I'm so proud of you. Kids learn behaivors by watching others and yea sometimes they do something for the reaction. Also give her a special cuddle time just you and her. Make her feel special. She will change it maybe slow but it will happen..
    let them eat cake! because id rather have pie!!!
  • Chocoholic
    Posts: 2,013Member
    Just for the record- hot sauce in the mouth can be considered abuse ( http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/24/alaskas-hot-sauce-mom-convicted-of-child-abuse/ )

    Not saying I agree with it, but a mother was convicted of child abuse for it. I would personally probably not report it without additional causes, but it is a reportable offense. Just a heads up.

    Also, I agree with @grits
    The answer is chocolate. I don't care what the question is.
  • IWISHIWEREKBIWISHIWEREKB
    Posts: 66Member
    So, I would like to announce (and knock on wood) that last night little sweet monster baby would NOT go to bed after NOT napping all day. She shares a room with her brother and she wouldn't stay in bed, kept singing and playing, etc. I told her that she needed to get into bed or I was getting the hot sauce. She literally did the cross the arms, stamp the foot thing at me and said, "No, I NOT go to bed!" So I calmly went and got the bottle, opened it up and showed it to her. She crawled RIGHT into bed and said, "Night mama!"  She slept all night and today when she pushed her brother into a wall and made him cry, I showed her that bottle, didn't say a word and she said, "I sorry baby Joey!" I still hate the threat of it, but it seems like she's really learning the power of consequences. As far as peeing goes, we'll see what happens if we try a time out again. I think I'm really gonna have to do the chair in the corner/timer thing and HOPEFULLY she won't pee her pants again. Thanks for all the advice ladies! It's MUCH appreciated:)
  • PenguinsMommaPenguinsMomma
    Posts: 1,876Member
    @IWISHIWEREKB I am so jealous that you found somehing that works!  MY DS3 IS  a complee terror.  Well behaived for pretty much everyone but me.  The only thing hat occasionally works is threatening to call his Day Care Director and have her put him in time out.  I'm still trying.  Things tend to work for a week or two then he does the whole "NO! YOU (fill in punishment here) MOMMY!!!"  I'm at my complete wits end...so I feel for you.  And if just the threat of hot sauce works now, I think she got the message. 
  • IWISHIWEREKBIWISHIWEREKB
    Posts: 66Member
    I'm sorry for your struggles! I definitely feel your pain. I get "put into time out" a lot these days. "No mama! YOU GO A TIME OUT!" or "I PUT HOT SAUCE ON YOU TONGUE!" *sigh*....good luck! I'm sure she'll remember in a day or two that she's really smarter than I am and pull some new shit on me.
  • slowlylosingit
    Posts: 57Member
    it's gonna pass! Try ignoring her bad behavior! Maybe shes jealous?
  • BellaBefanaBellaBefana
    Posts: 10,374Member
    @IWISHIWEREKB:  aw, hell, mama, I put myself in time out!

    And I would think that with the hot sauce/child abuse correlation, it would be a drop on the tongue, vs pouring it down their throat...

    For me, as I said earlier, its the vacuum that works best.  Or the wooden spoon, don't have to use it, just get it, even get up to get it.
    Bite me, cupcake!
  • jerseykids
    Posts: 1Member
    If she can't turn the water on, have you considered an empty bathtub for time out? Not a fun or comfortable place to be, plus if she's going to pee you won't have to worry about clean up.
  • IWISHIWEREKBIWISHIWEREKB
    Posts: 66Member
    Never thought of that! She does however have a knack for putting bad stuff down the toilets. Sometimes I just put up the baby gate at the end of the hall and make her stay in there for a few minutes. She can't get into anything and doesn't have anythign to play with. It's a little like solitary for babies LOL
  • Lulu
    Posts: 279Member

    @iwishiwerekb


    Some food for thought: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52899-2004Aug9_3.html


    Also I WOULD "hot sauce" my kid if it were truly a last resort and they were physically hurting their siblings or biting. But I'd only use Frank's Red Hot and not Tabasco...even if it's a punishment, I'd use the good stuff.

  • msfinallyhome
    Posts: 10Member

    I have 3 year old.  I threaten nothing.  I tell her what the consequences are and let her make her own choice.  I can't force anyone to do anything.  But I know what I can control. For example.  She kept thowing her snack bowl on the car floor when she was done eating.  I told her if she did it again I could not trust her to eat in the car any more.  She dropped it again and I stopped letting her eat in the car.  The next car trip her sister and I ate some nice treats, but not her because I coudln't trust her. 


    The most important thing... if you say you are going to do something DO IT.  I did not give her ANOTHER chance.  Once I explain what the consequence will be I ALWAYS follow through.  So don't threaten what you have no plans on doing.  Parents who do this we call "Chic-fil-A parents".  In the play place they sit on their buts and yell "If you do that one more time we a re leaving!" But they never actually leave!  If I say we are leaving you better bet I will climb up that slide, grab her and take her home immediately. 


    My daughter follows 90% of my directions because she knows that when I explain a consequence I am 100% serious on the follow through.  Then she decides if the behavior is worth the consequence.